Really??

We'll plan the 2011 BorregoFest event here. Threads will be started as we get closer to the event. This event will include an Amateur Radio testing session.
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gon2srf
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Really??

#1

Post by gon2srf » Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:46 am

So the the thread gets a clean up and the plot thickens a bit. viewtopic.php?f=151&t=2940

I may be reading too much into the new statement but it now appears that not only is the raffle off limits to the the non Stagecoach campers but also the potluck as well? Unless of course you're bringing a main dish which seems to be suggested in such a manner as to almost be a warning. Is there a such a fear among the board that if you camp offsite you are only there to mooch off of the paying customers?
This year, many people have decided to camp at locations other than the Stage Coach Trails location, and we are not seeing the type of offerings that would make for a balanced dinner (we are a bit light on main dishes and too heavy on deserts.
2. If you are camping elsewhere, and would like to participate in the potluck, you will need to let us know what dish you will be bringing.
There are only two Stagecoach campers signed up for a main dish, for gosh sakes?

I personally have not camped at the new BorregoFest location because of the type of place it is. It's barren, windy, lacks character and reminds me of a KOA campground. You can't space out and or pick your neighbors and the fire ring is so big you can't even see the guy on the opposite side of it much less talk to him.

Do people camping offsite or coming up for the day degrade the BorregoFest experience or add to it?

Does OAUSA have to pay Stagecoach campground some minimum fee to be there, does it lose money if a minimum is not reached?

Did you guys ever think the club might have less participation because of the direction it has taken, the location and not just the economy?? Most people go off road and outdoors to get away from all the electronics and crap, polar opposite here. The bigger the solar panel the more sh*t you can run. Wohoo!

I'm listening?
Borrego Fest 2011 Important Information

Post Number : #1 Postby OAUSA Board Members on October 12th, 2011, 11:00 am
Outdoor Adventure BorregoFest 2011 is fast approaching, and we want to make sure that those who are attending have a great time. For many reasons, this year is turning out to be quite different – the economy, fuel prices, job situations, etc., have affected us all, especially financially.

This year, as in previous years, OAUSA depends on the donations from this event, and SummerFest, to help it stay in operation. Campsite fees, taxes, website expenses all add up, and OAUSA is comprised of a completely volunteer, unpaid staff. We have done our best to keep the fees reasonable, and ask that all who can, please join us at Stage Coach Trails to help support OAUSA. BorregoFest, with it’s group camping, is to promote a feeling of camaraderie among the members, and create an opportunity for those who many not know each other to share in the event face to face, as well as contribute to the future of Outdoor Adventure USA.

One of the highlights of our BorregoFest event has been the potluck dinner. This was due in part to the huge turn out for the event, and the equally large number of people who volunteered to bring a variety of dishes. This year, many people have decided to camp at locations other than the Stage Coach Trails location, and we are not seeing the type of offerings that would make for a balanced dinner (we are a bit light on main dishes and too heavy on deserts).

Since BorregoFest is about two weeks away, we need to make sure that the potluck is as good as circumstances permit, and we are asking for the cooperation of everyone attending to help make this potluck a success:

1. If you are signed up and have paid to camp at Stage Coach Trails, we will contact you directly to coordinate pot luck contributions.

2. If you are camping elsewhere, and would like to participate in the potluck, you will need to let us know what dish you will be bringing. In addition, there is always a need for beverages, paper goods, utensils, firewood, etc. We would also ask you to consider making a monetary contribution to help OAUSA offset the campground expenses.

As in years past, we will be doing a raffle at the campground. To be fair, only those who have paid to participate for the weekend at Stage Coach Trails will be eligible to participate in the raffle. Upon confirmation of payment, you will be issued one raffle ticket, and will be able to purchase additional tickets, prior to the drawing.
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FishPOET
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Re: Really??

#2

Post by FishPOET » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:09 pm

Disappointed doesn't begin to express my feeling towards OAUSA right now. I had planned on coming out late Saturday after my SBNFA Awards BBQ finished and stay through Sunday but I can read between the lines and I refuse to be treated like a 2nd class member. I get the distinct feeling that whomever is running this group is not much of a listener.
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cruiserlarry
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Re: Really??

#3

Post by cruiserlarry » Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:09 pm

Scott, it's surprising to me that a moderator has taken to the forum to vent his feelings in such an angry way, instead of contacting a board member and discussing it off the forum, to provide constructive criticism. I'll try to provide my take on this and hope it helps, and that it is read in the constructive spirit I mean it to be:

OAUSA was started, and is run by unpaid board members, who spend more time than you realize to try to get things happening for folks to enjoy. We all have full-time jobs, families, and other hobbies. We are not some evil corporation or government, and we are not perfect, or likely to make everyone happy all the time.

BorregoFest, SummerFest, meet and greets, amateur radio test sessions, and the OAUSA website, cost money to run. We do not have a large membership yet, and we are aware the economy and personal situations have made it difficult for many members to contribute time or money to help out. So, we pay for it out of our pockets if necessary. Yes, we have to commit to a minimum numbers of campers to get a better rate, and we also have to pay state taxes, insurance, permit fees, web fees, etc., all year long. We hope that folks realize this isn't just about finding the cheapest way to participate, but that they will be supporting OAUSA by helping offset the costs of running it. Borregofest isn't about finding a remote hiding spot, or cloistering with a couple of old friends, but rather a group get-together to hang with everyone. Yes, Stagecoach isn't the same as Pinion Mtn, but that's necessary to house a larger group, have a big pot-luck, and meet the people who you might not yet know. And, yes, many of us enjoy playing with the electronic gizmos that have always been a part of OAUSA's focus - ham radio.

Rather then hearing how you are being treated like a second-class member, we ask you make an exception for this one weekend, and actually join in with the group. Encourage other members to come, and maybe make it better, instead of painting a picture of gloom on the forum. The fees generated will help offset some of OAUSA's expenses (if we cover camping fees), and we can be together as a big group, as we are trying to do, a couple of times a year. You can go to a hide-a-way in the desert or mountains on your own anytime - that's not what BorregoFest, or OAUSA, is about. What is disappointing to me, as a member, and a board member, is that some are still missing this point - getting together, not camping apart; helping support OAUSA, not just seeing what freebie you can get at the raffle, is why we have BorregoFest.

So please consider joining in with the group for this one weekend - even if, for you, the fire seems too "cold", the scenery too "plain", and the camp too "civilized" - because that is what this event is about - the people. And as always, if you have ideas that you feel might make these events better, as a social event, and as a fund-raiser, let us know off-line; or better yet, volunteer to help out.

I look forward to having a great time at BorregoFest, to seeing you and the other members in person, and to discussing ways we can make it improve every year..

Thanks for listening...

Larry
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gon2srf
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Re: Really??

#4

Post by gon2srf » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:28 am

FishPOET wrote:Disappointed doesn't begin to express my feeling towards OAUSA right now. I had planned on coming out late Saturday after my SBNFA Awards BBQ finished and stay through Sunday but I can read between the lines and I refuse to be treated like a 2nd class member. I get the distinct feeling that whomever is running this group is not much of a listener.
Quit whining on my coattails, if you have a complaint voice it yourself and stop following my lead. I don't need a I pay the camping fees but just don't like the campground a whole lot nor am I a big fan of the direction and dryness this club has taken. I know the guys running the group and respect them a great deal but disagree with the decisions that were made and the way they were stated. Please move along and find your own soap box.
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Re: Really??

#5

Post by BorregoWrangler » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:55 am

I don't see how any of this makes someone a second class OAUSA citizen. Those who pay for a group camp site get a raffle ticket. That's it. I don't see that as a big deal.

Besides, the raffle is such a small part of this event. BorregoFest is about getting out with great people in an awesome area to explore and socialize.

I prefer remote camping myself over developed camp grounds, but Stagecoach Trails is a good one. The facilities also make it much more appealing for those with spouses or kids who otherwise might not want to camp out.

You should give it a try, Scott. I don't think you'd be disappointed.
-John Graham
1989 YJ & 2000 TJ

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gon2srf
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Re: Really??

#6

Post by gon2srf » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:17 am

cruiserlarry wrote:Scott, it's surprising to me that a moderator has taken to the forum to vent his feelings in such an angry way, instead of contacting a board member and discussing it off the forum, to provide constructive criticism. I'll try to provide my take on this and hope it helps, and that it is read in the constructive spirit I mean it to be:

OAUSA was started, and is run by unpaid board members, who spend more time than you realize to try to get things happening for folks to enjoy. We all have full-time jobs, families, and other hobbies. We are not some evil corporation or government, and we are not perfect, or likely to make everyone happy all the time.

BorregoFest, SummerFest, meet and greets, amateur radio test sessions, and the OAUSA website, cost money to run. We do not have a large membership yet, and we are aware the economy and personal situations have made it difficult for many members to contribute time or money to help out. So, we pay for it out of our pockets if necessary. Yes, we have to commit to a minimum numbers of campers to get a better rate, and we also have to pay state taxes, insurance, permit fees, web fees, etc., all year long. We hope that folks realize this isn't just about finding the cheapest way to participate, but that they will be supporting OAUSA by helping offset the costs of running it. Borregofest isn't about finding a remote hiding spot, or cloistering with a couple of old friends, but rather a group get-together to hang with everyone. Yes, Stagecoach isn't the same as Pinion Mtn, but that's necessary to house a larger group, have a big pot-luck, and meet the people who you might not yet know. And, yes, many of us enjoy playing with the electronic gizmos that have always been a part of OAUSA's focus - ham radio.

Rather then hearing how you are being treated like a second-class member, we ask you make an exception for this one weekend, and actually join in with the group. Encourage other members to come, and maybe make it better, instead of painting a picture of gloom on the forum. The fees generated will help offset some of OAUSA's expenses (if we cover camping fees), and we can be together as a big group, as we are trying to do, a couple of times a year. You can go to a hide-a-way in the desert or mountains on your own anytime - that's not what BorregoFest, or OAUSA, is about. What is disappointing to me, as a member, and a board member, is that some are still missing this point - getting together, not camping apart; helping support OAUSA, not just seeing what freebie you can get at the raffle, is why we have BorregoFest.

So please consider joining in with the group for this one weekend - even if, for you, the fire seems too "cold", the scenery too "plain", and the camp too "civilized" - because that is what this event is about - the people. And as always, if you have ideas that you feel might make these events better, as a social event, and as a fund-raiser, let us know off-line; or better yet, volunteer to help out.

I look forward to having a great time at BorregoFest, to seeing you and the other members in person, and to discussing ways we can make it improve every year..

Thanks for listening...

Larry

Larry it's 1:30 in the morning and I just got finished working 16 hours straight and have to be back again at 6:00am so there is no way I can respond to your response accept to say that I have already voiced my opinions about the direction of the club, the location of BorregoFest which by the way I am not comparing to Pinyon Mountain, Palm Canyon yes indeed, a hundred times nicer place IMO. I appreciate your response but again am dismayed at accusations of free loading and now it surely seem a pointed statement and not in generality. I could give a damn about winning a raffle prize, I only suggested finding away to offer raffle tickets for everyone as a way to raise more funds. Last year I gave my raffle ticket away and didn't eat a thing at the potluck. I paid the camping fees as a donation in 2009, maybe didn't last year (?), did again this year. I show up, try to lead or tailgate a run, bring firewood, drinks, make apple cobbler. I never said a word about being treated like a second class citizen so please don't mistake FishPoet's comments for mine. Do I feel like an outsider now you bet, a second class citizen never. You've been a good friend and a great purveyor of the sport Larry and hopefully we'll share more good times on the trail but the bottom line is, times have changed here and I'm not feeling it any longer. Time to move on.
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Re: Really??

#7

Post by cruiserlarry » Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:44 pm

gon2srf wrote:You've been a good friend and a great purveyor of the sport Larry and hopefully we'll share more good times on the trail but the bottom line is, times have changed here and I'm not feeling it any longer. Time to move on.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but I can't change that. My comments were made to let others understand what I feel BorregoFest is about , not to criticize you. No one was called a freeloader, and the electronics reference was a response to a criticism you made in your post. As for Palm Canyon, we can't use them for large groups - the rangers won't allow it. We were on marginal ground back in the ADV4X4 days, and they are more strict now.

Your contributions have always been appreciated, which is why I was surprised at the tone you took on the forum - just seemed inappropriate to me, and that is why I posted.

I'm sure we'll be out on the trails together again soon. I consider you a good friend, and hope everything goes well for you in whatever you do...
on the trail, and off. ;)
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skersfan
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Re: Really??

#8

Post by skersfan » Tue Oct 18, 2011 10:52 am

Scott,

I too have pulled away from the group, due to the direction of the majority. I am not into the Ham radio stuff, never have been, and does seem that is more of what the club/group is about.

I am coming to this one to see if it is a group I want to be with for extended periods of time. To see old friends and make some new ones I hope.

I was excited when I saw your name on the list as, I had not seen you in quite awhile. I hope you make the event, and with ideas from all can make the group more enjoyable to a wider base.

This is not a slam at anyone on the board or outside the board.

I do think we are over reacting to the comments regarding the pot luck, and I can see how the comments could be misconstrued. I do not think there was an intentional slap at those not camping in the area.

I put my two cents in because I am coming to my first camping OAUSA event, to see old friends and have enjoyable weekend in the desert.

Hope to see friends, mend fences and have a great time this weekend.

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