Fire Extinguisher

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cruiserlarry
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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#21

Post by cruiserlarry » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:33 pm

Voodoo Blue 57 wrote:I've also been looking at extinguishers but I've had some people I work with have different items explode, not extinguishers but other pressurized items, and was wondering if this was a possible problem with them especially it a car that has been sitting in 100 + degree temperatures.
Very unlikely if you have a quality fire extinguisher. 120+ degrees is hot for your skin, but nothing for a pressure tested container. I'm not sure what the people you work with had explode in their vehicles, but most of these stories are old wive's tales. Even a bottle of Coke won't explode sitting in the car, and it's got a very poor sealing system and thin plastic container.

Buy a quality unit, and you'll be fine...
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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#22

Post by DaveK » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:24 pm

cruiserlarry wrote:
Voodoo Blue 57 wrote:I've also been looking at extinguishers but I've had some people I work with have different items explode, not extinguishers but other pressurized items, and was wondering if this was a possible problem with them especially it a car that has been sitting in 100 + degree temperatures.
Very unlikely if you have a quality fire extinguisher. 120+ degrees is hot for your skin, but nothing for a pressure tested container. I'm not sure what the people you work with had explode in their vehicles, but most of these stories are old wive's tales. Even a bottle of Coke won't explode sitting in the car, and it's got a very poor sealing system and thin plastic container.

Buy a quality unit, and you'll be fine...
I CONCUR.
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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#23

Post by Voodoo Blue 57 » Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:31 am

Thanks for the info. I've never read or heard about extinguishers exploding given the fact that there are a lot of people with them in their vehicles.
I have seen the aftermath of things exploding in cars thought. My next door neighbor showed me the shredded hole in his back seat where a pressurized can exploded. It happened on the weekend with this car parked in front of his house. I also worked in field service and we used cans of air, class cleaner, etc and were always told to put them in our tool boxes or another case in case they exploded. I never had it happen to me but some of my colleges did. I never heard of it happening when someone was in the car only after the car had been sitting for a while where the temperature could build up.
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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#24

Post by verdesardog » Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:37 pm

Here's where I keep my dry chem ext. I do turn it over and shake it every month or so to prevent caking of the powder:


Image


Halon is not a good ext for vehicles, it dissipates rapidly in free air and wind makes it go away even faster. It also turns very toxic when exposed to flame! And as you probably all know it is bad for the environment.

It was used on board US Navy ships when I was in the navy for engine rooms that could be completly sealed and flooded with halon, then totaly removed before allowing personnel back in the space.
Retired US Navy (Viet Nam, Persian Gulf) Member of Verde Search and Rescue, Yavapai Co. Arizona.

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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#25

Post by cruiserlarry » Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:57 pm

Couple of comments...

Pure halon extinguishers are no longer sold for non-commercial use. Most are a newer, far less toxic blend (Halgard, etc...),and safer for the environment. The main advantage to a halide blend vs dry chemical is what is left after putting out the fire - dry chemical can be corrosive, and damages electronic equipment even if the fire didn't. Halide blends leave no residue, and does no damage to equipment, which is a big advantage when a vehicle is full of electronics....


My other comment is in regard to extinguisher location. Always mount your extinguisher where you can get to it quickly in an emergency - if a fire starts, you don't want to spend precious time trying to get to an extinguisher mounted in a box or under a bunch of other equipment. Mount it within reach, if possible, an mount it securely to prevent injury from a dislodged extinguisher when hitting the trails...
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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#26

Post by DaveK » Tue Oct 02, 2012 10:30 am

Actually, Halon is still available. Quantities are limited and the prices reflect this, but it is still sold to the public.

On the question of damage to the environment, there is a debate on the legitimacy of this claim. Regardless of the position one takes on this issue, Halon still is one of the most effective extinguishing agents on the market. The major downside to Halon is that it is not effective in windy conditions. When a fire extinguisher is needed under these conditions, your dry chemical extinguishers should be considered.

On the question of the toxicity of Halon, it should first be emphasized that there is no fire extinguishing agent that is totally safe to breath, especially the dry chemical agents. The following is from the H3R website (http://www.h3rcleanagents.com/support_faq_2.htm):
Halons are low-toxicity, chemically stable compounds that have been used for fire and explosion protection from early in the last century. Halon has proven to be an extremely effective fire suppressant. Halon is clean (i.e., leaves no residue) and is remarkably safe for human exposure. Halon is a highly effective agent for firefighting in closed passenger carrying areas. Due to its effectiveness and relatively low toxicity, the FAA continues to recommend or require Halon extinguishers for use on commercial aircraft.

Extensive toxicity evaluations have been compiled by nationally recognized United States medical laboratories and institutions on Halon 1301 and Halon 1211. These evaluations have shown that Halon 1301 and Halon 1211 are two of the safest clean extinguishing agents available.
For automotive use, especially in the passenger compartment and under the hood, Halon can be exceptionally effective and, as Larry points out, it will not leave a caustic residue as the dry chemical extinguishers do.
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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#27

Post by wb6twl » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:07 am

When I bought my 2 Halotron FE's earlier this year at Fire, Etc (the local firefighter version of a 'cop shop'), I asked them about Halon and they told me that Halon can no longer be sold because of the "environmental" issue. The replacement is "halotron" which, according to them, is comparable to halon and is currently the only approved alternative. Fire, Etc. supplies firefighters, fire depts. and other agencies with everything from flashlights, turnout gear and almost everything up to and including used fire trucks.
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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#28

Post by cruiserlarry » Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:45 pm

Halon can only be sold to refill existing halon extinguisher applications - you cannot purchase a new halon extinguisher as a consumer transaction. Certain industries have exemptions in commercial applications, but for most of us - no halon.

It is possible (and very expensive) to purchase used halon extinguishers to be refilled, and this is perfectly legal.

Halon gas works by displacing the oxygen in the area of application - this is very effective for putting out the fire (no fuel), but in situations where there is a contained space and humans breathing, not good for the humans (no air).

Halon gas also contributes to the depletion of the ozone layer, which is the environmental hazard that has been referred to.

Dirty Parts carries the H3R Performance Halgard Extinguishers, which contain the legal substitute for Halon
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Re: Fire Extinguisher

#29

Post by DaveK » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:52 am

Not true. I just called H3R to confirm that they still sell Halon FEs to the public.

No substitute for Halon is available that is as effective as Halon and that is why it is still available and recommended for many uses including aviation and electronics.

It would be unwise to assume that any fire extinguishing agent is totally safe to breathe, but a balancing test must be used to determine whether to allow the fire to burn itself out or to put it out. When my car is on fire and I have the most effective means to put it out, I choose Halon.

Yes, it is true that Halon has an effect on oxygen, but so does a fire, which is also not good for humans.

The question over the ozone damage is an open debate and there are many scientists that believe this is nothing but a hoax. I agree.
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