Open Carry banned in CA

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ssc
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Open Carry banned in CA

#1

Post by ssc » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:17 pm

We discussed this issue and it was not hard to see this would happen. (see our previous thread--stopped for open carry.) http://www.oausa.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1582 I refer to posts 16, 87, 94, 99. I sure hope this doesn't start the next round of gun control laws in this state. I just do not understand why the "pro gun" folks can't play it smarter.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/ ... n-ban.html

Regards, Steve
FJ Mamba. Icon 2.5 front CO XT, Icon rear 2.5 with res, Icon UCA, AP sliders, Demello front bumper, AP Rear Bumper and skids. BFG KM-2 285-70-17. Warn winch. Don't forget the Puddy Cat!

2012 Tundra Crewmax 4x4 with BFG's, 05 4-Runner 4X4, BFG's, http://www.sscphoto.zenfolio.com
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BorregoWrangler
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Re: Open Carry banned in CA

#2

Post by BorregoWrangler » Fri Oct 14, 2011 2:42 am

I just do not understand why the legislatures can't play it smarter. I don't blame the "pro-gun" people. These kind of laws show that this state's elective representatives have no regard for the highest law of the land or the rights of its citizens.

I do know know that this law was first proposed shortly after an incident here in San Diego.
ssc wrote:If anyone thinks the officer can only check the gun and not ask additional questions, you are heading to jail. The officer has PC to conduct an investigation and this includes making a determination as to whether the gun is stolen or if you are in the class of persons who is not allowed to possess a firearm.
The information from the previous post Steve mentioned here is wrong. This is exactly what happend to a fellow here in town. Long story short, after SDPD realized he had broken no laws, he was released. All he wanted was an apology and training for their officers but to no avail. It took a $30,000 settlement and a judge making it perfectly clear that his Constitutional rights had been voilated, to set SDPD straight.

California Politicians: "Well we don't want that to happen again so we'll just take that right away from the people!" *insert evil laugh here*


But then, maybe this is a blessing in disguise? Once this law comes into effect, the vast majority of Californian's will have no way to exercise their 2nd ammendment right in their daily lives. A recent lawsuit against CA's strict ccw policies was dismissed because UOC was avaliable.

Well, at least my hunting and fishing licenses allow me to conceal (unloaded of course).
-John Graham
1989 YJ & 2000 TJ

View all my trip reports here at my blog: GrahamCrackers

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ssc
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Re: Open Carry banned in CA

#3

Post by ssc » Fri Oct 14, 2011 11:48 am

First, my quote is very true. There are some disagreements from the OC movement and some lawyers have expressed these views. However, many DA's have a different view of the law. http://le.alcoda.org/publications/point ... _CARRY.pdf
What happened in SD is not as you may perceive it. The individual sued for an invalid arrest. It had nothing to do with being detained so they could ascertain if the gun was stolen or he was in a class of prohibited persons. Once they determined who he was and he was not prohibited from owning a firearm and it was not stolen, and that it was unloaded, he should have been sent on his way. Instead they arrested him and then later figured he had not violated the law. Further, he sued for MONEY. This is the same person who has now done something similar to the TSA and got arrested. As I stated in our last thread, certain people come out for revenue. This is one of the reasons, Brown used to sign the bill. There have been well over 1000 lawsuits filed on this issue.

As for some additional reading, PC 12031e, 833.5. There are many cases which support the right to detain as stated. I just got off the phone with a buddy, who is a judge, who used to be a DA and very anal. He gave me citations to USSCT cases, I was not even aware of that support the detainment and PC to a much greater level. The OC folks like to try to sell the kool aid and it only resulted in hurting the pro gun movement and I suspect, it will be the start of many more anti-gun laws/bills in the state of Calif.

I also do not think that this law will cause the "vast majority" of CA residents to not be able to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights. I don't think most people did open carry. Which is my point--there was a much better way to approach this. All OC did was bring this issue to the media who splashed it in everyones face and made the "vast majority" think OC was stupid and dangerous and then cause the pro gun side to lose the support of many people.

Regards, Steve
Last edited by ssc on Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FJ Mamba. Icon 2.5 front CO XT, Icon rear 2.5 with res, Icon UCA, AP sliders, Demello front bumper, AP Rear Bumper and skids. BFG KM-2 285-70-17. Warn winch. Don't forget the Puddy Cat!

2012 Tundra Crewmax 4x4 with BFG's, 05 4-Runner 4X4, BFG's, http://www.sscphoto.zenfolio.com
The other off road rig, the "License To Chill"

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Re: Open Carry banned in CA

#4

Post by socal_rubi » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:59 pm

Any way you look at it, it's all lame.

I was just thinking about this the other day. I was reminded of it because the off road community lost a member in the Seal Beach massacre, but we still can't carry any means of defending ourselves, should a similar situation arise. Granted, the odds that one of us will find ourselves in a situation like that are pretty slim, I for one would rather be prepared, than suffer the consequences of being unprepared. I feel it's the same as when I go wheelin in my rig. I keep my vehicle in tip top shape, and It's very unlikely that a situation would arise that would be dangerous, but I carry gear, tools, communication equipment, so in the event of a situation, I can bail myself out. Why can't I be prepared when I'm out and about in the concrete jungle?
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Re: Open Carry banned in CA

#5

Post by BorregoWrangler » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:14 am

The mere presense of a weapon, legally carried, does not give PC for further detention, beckground check, etc. There is case law to support this. Now that being said, that doesn't mean that there aren't corrupt officers, DA's, or judges who just plain don't like armed citizens and will do whatever is in their power to try and screw someone over.

That's why many who UOC don't carry ID on them and keep their mouth shut when confronted with law enforcment. California is not a stop and identify state.
12031 (e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.
This site is your best bet:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... ight=833.5
-John Graham
1989 YJ & 2000 TJ

View all my trip reports here at my blog: GrahamCrackers

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ssc
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Re: Open Carry banned in CA

#6

Post by ssc » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:23 pm

John I believe you are wrong and you can continue to think that anyone who doesn't agree with you is corrupt. You can continue to think that calguns is the be all/know all, but many people there have agenda's. I will continue to do my own research and read codes and the annotations and the USSCT rulings and Appeals Court decisions. I will continue to read opinion letters from many different people, both pro and anti on all the positions. I will continue to read the Califonia State court decisions. I will continue to seek knowledge and direction to both state and federal ruling from those who know more than I- which includes criminal defense attorneys, Attorneys in the Attorney generals office, DA's and judges--both Federal and State. And then I will continue to form and or modify my opinion as more information and or cases become available. I will not drink the kool aid of either side blindly and that is how I have developed my opinion. There is plenty of case law that supports my opinion. Just as an aside, you are partially correct that CA is not a "stop and identify" state. However, this is not absolute. If you are driving a vehicle, you must have a License and must produce it or you will be in violation of the law. You mention your hunting license and again, if you are hunting, it had better be in your possession with ID or you are in violation of the law. Just saying...be careful as few things are absolute in the law.

In conclusion, my main point is that OC movement and their actions--in my opinion-- have hurt the pro gun movement more than helped it. It is a shame, because I think they had a great opportunity to help reform the ccw laws.

Cheers, Steve
FJ Mamba. Icon 2.5 front CO XT, Icon rear 2.5 with res, Icon UCA, AP sliders, Demello front bumper, AP Rear Bumper and skids. BFG KM-2 285-70-17. Warn winch. Don't forget the Puddy Cat!

2012 Tundra Crewmax 4x4 with BFG's, 05 4-Runner 4X4, BFG's, http://www.sscphoto.zenfolio.com
The other off road rig, the "License To Chill"

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BorregoWrangler
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Re: Open Carry banned in CA

#7

Post by BorregoWrangler » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:47 pm

Steve you can believe anything you want, but I certainly don't think that anyone who doesn't agree with me is corrupt and I don't think CalGuns is the be all/know all. Nothing is.

I do like how you describe the way you do research to gain knowledge on this subject.

You make good points about the driver's and hunting license. I figured that went without saying. Although I do wonder if you actually need ID along with a hunting or fishing license, since they both have your drivers license number on them? When I'm out hunting or fishing I usually keep my offical ID in my vehicle...

...since I once lost it while hunting... and once when I fell off a boat! :oops:
-John Graham
1989 YJ & 2000 TJ

View all my trip reports here at my blog: GrahamCrackers

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