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OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:49 pm
by DaveK
Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

One of the fundamental rights we have as Americans ( and as Californians too) is that of self defense. For those who choose to exercise this right by the use of a firearm, you must know that there are many considerations, perils, and pitfalls that you may face, and it will be your knowledge, wisdom, safety, and common sense that will make it possible to navigate through these deep waters. Our net this week will cover the subject of getting your concealed firearm permit (sometimes referred to as a CCW) and your responsibilities as a permit holder.

Since it needs to be said, I'll take this opportunity to begin the discussion with one of the most important things you will need to know - carrying a concealed firearm is NOT for everybody. There are many reasons why this is true and hopefully we will cover them during the net. And lest there be any doubt, this is a bridge you must cross before you make your decision to carry.

It won't be the purpose of this net to take you through the actual application process, mostly because it will vary from state to state, and sometimes locality to locality. But, regardless of your jurisdiction, you will need to meticulously comply with them all. In general, we will break the net discussion down into the areas listed below, although not necessarily in this order.
  • Is carrying a concealed weapon right for you.
  • Legal requirements
  • Different means to obtain Permits
  • Your responsibilities as a permit holder.
  • Wise and safe practices of carrying
  • How to protect yourself
  • Holsters, clothing and firearms
  • Should I talk to the police after a shooting

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:48 pm
by DaveK
INSURANCE

Being a concealed firearm permit holder carries a lot of responsibilities and risks. Sad as it is to say, we live in a society that is lawsuit happy, and, as a permit holder, you may face risks that can be potentially serious. As if that were not enough, there are also jurisdictions in these great United States which are run by prosecutors who harbor a not-so-secret dislike of citizens who carry concealed firearms, whether legally or not.

Whether you face a civil action or criminal prosecution for the use of your legally concealed firearm, the results of defending yourself can be financially devastating. Times change and you need to adapt if you expect to survive. Protecting yourself with adequate insurance is a financially wise decision, just as it is with your car, your home, your motorcycle, or your health. With the increasing popularity of concealed carry permits, insurance companies are recognizing the growing market for coverage.

There is one company that is at the forefront of such coverage - the US Concealed Carry Association. While we will be discussing the USCCA in greater depth on the net, we would be quite remiss if we failed to mention a similar program offered by the NRA. Both companies offer coverage and you must do your homework to determine which is correct for you.

For about $1.00 a day, You can obtain the most popular coverage offered by USCCA as well as the premium plan with the NRA. .

For the different USCCA plans, see :https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/
For the different plans offered by the NRA, see: https://lockton.nracarryguard.com/coverage/

The following is a description of the benefits of the USCCA premium plan, (From their website, https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/membership/)

100% Risk-Free, Money-Back Guarantee

Concealed Carry Magazine
Complete Print + Digital Subscription (8 issues per Year)
Complete Online Access To Lifetime Archive of Back Issues

Education
CCW Reciprocity Map With Permit Expiration Reminders
Member-Only USCCA App Features
CCW Alerts When Crossing State Lines
"Find an Attorney" Map
Quick Access To Attorney Contact Info
Weekly updates on news, changing laws, and gear reviews
10 Lifesaving Checklists
Digital Access to 70+ Lifesaving Guides & eBooks
Interactive “Ask An Attorney” Monthly Webinar + Complete Archive

Training
Weekly Training Drills
Live Training Broadcasts With Industry Experts (3 Times per Year)
Access to Nationwide USCCA Certified Instructor Network
Member-Only Online Video Library
Proving Ground Scenario-Based Training Series (Over 30 Videos)
Situational Awareness Video
When To Use Deadly Force Video
10+ Hours in eLearning Training Systems ($344 Value)
Concealed Carry & Home Defense Fundamentals
Emergency First Aid Fundamentals

Legal Protection*
$2,000,000 in Self-Defense SHIELD Protection For Civil Defense & Damages
$250,000 in Self-Defense SHIELD Protection For Criminal Defense, Bail Bond Funding & Attorney Retainer
24/7/365 Critical Response Team
Your Choice of Attorney or Access to USCCA Attorney Network
Up-Front Protection for All Legal Weapons of Opportunity

USCCA Community
Community Giving Program – Your Membership Provides Free Training To Your Community
24/7 Access to Expert Member Services Team
Free Daily Entry to Annual USCCA Concealed Carry Expo
Advanced Show Entry
Elite VIP Experience

Member Perks

Exclusive Discount on Elite Spouse Membership
Carry Confidence Kit Mailed
Within 1 Business Day
Member-Only Discounts on USCCA Training & Gear
Early Bird Access to Newly Released Training & Gear
Huge Discounts from Trusted Industry Partners
Elite Concierge Line
(Priority Non-Emergency Phone Service)

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:38 pm
by DaveK
JUDICIAL CONSIDERATIONS

The debate over the right to bear arms is contentious and (seemingly) never ending. In most states, the right to carry a concealed firearm is conditioned upon the desire for self defense and the absence of a criminal or mental record. In these states, the process is quick and efficient, but most importantly, free of interference from the political pressures that exist in other jurisdictions, most notably California.

California is not alone, however, as there are a few other states who make it nearly impossible to obtain a permit. They do so by relying on the requirement of “good cause” (in addition to a clean record) in order to obtain a permit to carry. The application of this deceptively legitimate requirement has universally been the tool of anti Second Amendment partisans, who believe that average people are not smart enough to use a firearm for self defense (there are other reasons as well, but that is a discussion for another day.)

The result has been a literal smorgasbord of differing interpretations of “good cause”, to the point that some agencies issue virtually no permits while others issue many (to otherwise qualified individuals). With no standard definition of “good cause”, agencies have been free to create their own, which are often consistent with their political views. And, quite literally, the same individual could legally obtain a permit in most states, but be denied in states like California.

The matter finally came to a head in San Diego, in 2009, when Edward Peruta’s application for a concealed firearms permit was denied by the Sheriff's Department on "good cause" grounds, despite the fact that he had no criminal or mental record and was not otherwise prohibited from owning firearms. Litigation ensued and the case worked its way to the Federal 9th Circuit Court of Appeal by a full 11 Judge panel. In this court, it was no surprise that the plaintiff eventually lost. The case was appealed to the US Supreme Court where is was not accepted for review. For those of us in the States which are under the Jurisdiction of the 9th Circuit, this decision, at least for the moment, is the law.

While the initial decision of the 9th Circuit 3 Judge panel (where the plaintiff actually won) is no longer controlling, it is fascinating and deserves to be read in its entirety (supplied below). While lengthy, it offers an excellent history of the Second Amendment, and for those looking to be “well armed” when the topic of discussion turns to guns, this is a great resource.

I bring this matter to everyone's attention now because the US Supreme Court now has two new members, and cases like this now may come under the scrutiny of the highest court.

Note: States in the 9th Circuit's Jurisdiction: California, Oregon, Washington, Nevada, Arizona, Montana, Alaska, Idaho, Hawaii and the Pacific Islands of Guam and the Marianas. Here is the full decision:

Peruta Opinion.pdf
(438 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:17 pm
by DaveK
OBTAINING MULTI-STATE PERMITS TO CARRY CONCEALED

Obtaining a permit to carry a concealed firearm (in those states which require one) is not always as difficult as it is in states like California. Many states have a simplified and quick procedure that allows the law abiding citizen to carry. I need to emphasize that the procedures in use by these states are not a sham or a shortcut, as they require a thorough background check, complete with fingerprints, photo ID, training and competence requirements.

Most states have reciprocal oor recognition agreements in place, which means that they will recognize or accept permits from other states and and allow permit holders to carry concealed. This can be very helpful for those who travel from state to state and wish to carry their firearm legally.

Important caveat: If you plan on taking advantage of these reciprocal or recognition agreements, you MUST check to make sure that the agreements are, in fact, still in place and that you will enjoy all the privileges that you expect. The wise traveler will check this out before he crosses state lines!!!!!

As a consequence of these agreements, several companies offer courses that will help you to get a couple of state licenses, even though you may not be a resident of those states. that will be recognized in as many as 32 other states (and sometimes more.) One business, for example, which offers such courses, is USA Carry, in San Diego, California (see: http://www.ccwusa.com.) By obtaining permits in the States of Florida, Arizona and Utah, through USA Carry, even if you are not a resident of those states, you can be legally allowed to carry concealed in 32, or more states. USA Carry provides a list of states which, through reciprocity or recognition, will honor your licenses from Arizona, Utah and Florida. They are:
Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia, Wisconsin, Wyoming
The status of states that will offer reciprocity or recognition is a changing one and, again, if you expect to travel, check out those states where you plan on carrying concealed.

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:42 pm
by DaveK
YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES AS A PERMIT HOLDER

1. Be informed

2. Being physically fit

3. Practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more. Enroll in practical training courses, if you feel the need.

4. Make sure that your firearm is actually ALWAYS concealed.

5. Know where you are not allowed to carry concealed, (Post Offices, Federal and State buildings, schools, Court Houses, etc)

6. Get insurance

7. Use quality holsters

8. Never carry when under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

9. Remember, you are not Rambo, dirty Harry, Paul Benjamin, or Paladin.

10. Be aware of your surroundings (be the grey man)

11. Should I talk to the police after a shooting

One of the best ways to educate yourself on many of these areas is through the USCCA's publication called Concealed Carry. It offers a wealth of information to help keep you safe, legal and protected. Their magazine, published 8 times a year, contains helpful information on firearms, product reviews, self protection tips and legal updates on whats going on here in the US. Remember, buying and owning a gun Is simply not enough!!!!!

The magazine is available for subscription only or as part of the insurance package. Here is what it offers:
Concealed Carry Magazine

Subscribe today to the award-winning Concealed Carry
Magazine and you’ll get:

8 issues per year delivered straight to your door, plus online access to back issues.
Practical drills and training from industry experts and people who actually carry every day.
Insight on firearm laws that affect all responsibly armed Americans and the legal ramifications of deadly force.
Real life stories from people, just like you, who’ve defended themselves and their families.
USCCA Magazines

USCCA Magazine 3.png
USCCA Magazine 3.png (368.16 KiB) Viewed 150 times

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:48 pm
by DaveK
HOLSTERS

Ahhh yes, which holster is the best. Quick answer: There are many................and often it will be a matter of pure personal choice. One quick OAUSA piece of helpful advice - buy quality. And, remember, withdrawing your firearm from the holster is as important as returning it.

Holsters, for many of us, are like flashlights, knives, ice chests, lanterns, and ham radios. It it seems that one is never enough, and if you are new to the concealment process, it probably will take several purchases to find the right one.

A few golden rules on concealment holsters:


1. Buy quality from a reputable manufacturer. The longer they have been in business, the greater the chances are that they will be around to honor a warranty or fix a problem.

2. Buy a holster that is made specifically for you firearm - avoid the one size fits all holsters.

3. if the holster is made of leather, constant use and time will take its toll. So, keep it treated with solutions recommended by the manufacturer.

4. Holsters without straps should provide a snug fit capable of holding the firearm during the types of uses you expect to encounter. The last thing you want is for the gun to fall out when you bend over.

5. If your activities require bending, strenuous work, running, or the like, you may need to consider a holster with a strap or snap closure. Same thing - you do not want the firearm to flop on the ground.

6. Use a holster that provides good protection from printing.

7. It may take several holsters to finally arrive on the style and brand that suits you best. Don't be afraid to check out others.

8. Be prepared to change some parts of your wardrobe, as your clothes will need to keep that extra piece of equipment covered so you remain completely legal.

9. Regardless of the holster material, check it periodically to make sure that stitching is in tact, that rivets are still in good shape, that there are not tears or wear problems, and that it still holds the firearm properly.

10. Buy a holster that does not collapse when the firearm is removed. One hand should be all that is necessary to re-holster the firearm.

11. If your holster is to be attached to a belt, get a quality and rugged one that is the maximum width that the holster can accept.

12. Do your homework. Get educated on what types of holsters are on the market. Talk to the manufacturers, knowledgeable friends, and the like. Be careful, very careful, when getting advice from the internet or gun shop employees.

Unfortunately, time does not permit a lengthy listing of manufacturers, so I will just mention two - a belt manufacturer and a holster manufacturer. They have served me well.


Kirkpatrick Concealment Holsters (http://www.kirkpatrickleather.com/concealment)

Kirkpatrick Concealment Texas Strongside Holster.jpg
Kirkpatrick Concealment Texas Strongside Holster.jpg (52.4 KiB) Viewed 127 times

Bianchi Belts (http://www.safariland.com/products/hols ... 19941.html)

Bianchi Belt.jpg
Bianchi Belt.jpg (31.19 KiB) Viewed 127 times

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:19 pm
by toms
Here just a few of the issues for those new to concealed carry.
Lets see if we can add to the list during the net.

1. Think everyone is looking at you and can tell you are carrying concealed.
Most people don't notice. Acting uncomfortable will bring attention. If you have done your job with holster, belt and clothing, Just forget you are carrying.

2. Adjusting the firearm and holster in public. It takes time for it to feel right or to get the right combination of holster and belt. If you have to adjust it, do it in private. Just standing next to your car with the car door open and your strong side facing toward the inside of the vehicle may be enough in a big parking lot. Very few people will even look your way. You could be zipping up you fly as far as they know!

3. Touching yourself every few minutes to see it is still there. It will be! As above, forget it. In 6 month, it will be second nature.

4. Clothing - clothes that are too tight, light colored, or are tactical. You don't need to start looking sloppy but you might need to add an inch to you waist size. Tactical clothes raise the thought you might be carrying.

5. …………

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:55 pm
by Diesel4x
Thanks for early check in, KF6KOC Randy.

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:40 pm
by k9atk
Please check in
Kd0exi cheyenne
K9atk brian
K9fog trish
Kd0gpe austin
Thanks

Re: OAUSA Net - December 6, 2018 - Getting Your Firearm Concealed Carry Permit

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:45 pm
by Wildland909
Excellent topic!!! Check me in please KN6FPT